throat infection ?

[Johnny and Demon]

Demon is usualy bigger than Johnny. He usualy lost all his winter coat and weight during spring and then goes back to a - for Demon - normal weight. 3 Days ago, I told my boyfriend that Demon was still looking small ; he told me to give him a chance. Yesterday while Demon was playing, dooking and fighting with Johnny, I found there were not much poop to scoop - there was still enough water in their bowls and plenty of foods. I started worried. I've watched Demon playing all day but he was fine (he looked fine). The same night, I've called him and while he was stretching out of his Octo-Play I almost scream : "Why your eyes are THAT big !?" (Demon has quit big eyes for a ferret but this time it was like really big more than usual). Then he walked my way and he was SKINNY ! My big boy was SKINNY ! Johnny looks HUGE compared to him ! I've screamed "Oh my god ! What's wrong with Demon"!? My boyfriend ran into the ferrets room and said "Call Dr. Drmac right NOW ! Its NOT normal"! So I've called the emergency - it was around 10:00. So around 10:30 Dr. Drmac checked his belly, his throat, eyes, teeth & gums well everything. He is thinking Demon might has a throat infection, something like that. He told me that usualy, ferrets who suffer from a blockage do not want to take anything at all (that's what Buck, a 5 years old ferret of a couple of friends we know was doing. He was not taking furotone, no water nothing).

Demon is still taking the furotone, furovite, ferretlax watever he usualy likes. We gave him a mix of Chicken Baby Food and his foods and we were feeding him with our finger and he was doing remarquably well. He is drinking a bit of water, not as much as usual. When I put ice cubes in his water (he usualy loves it) he drink a bit more so I keep putting ice in his water dishes. He also has a large water bottle so he has the choice. I was thinking to try a cup (Kathy & Remi - our friends) were doing this with their sick ferrets. I've put some of his dry food and a bit of his food mixed with warm water to mashed them a bit just like we did when they were kits. He started eating his dry food today.

We were thinking about xrays and so yesterday but Dr. Drmac doesnt want us to spend our money in xrays right now because he does not believe Demon has a blockage or whatsoever. He wants us to support him for 2-3 days and if there's no changes, then he will takes xrays and stuff.
What do you guys think he might be ? My boyfriend is gone for work right now and we agreed that I am staying home to make sure he is eating and drinking enough. Our poor baby boy ! We are very worried ! Hopefuly Demon gets well soon ! He is still playing but he is not the Demon we used to know. He was fighting with Dr. Drmac last night which is more our little Demon. But you know what I mean ? He seems to want to play, to want to eat and drink but something botters him. He is coughing, not really sneezing, there's no mucus ..

So because Demon is still taking furotone and stuff like that, because he is still eating and drinking a bit and because he is coughing sometimes and seems like he has a blockage in his throat ? Dr.Drmac was thinking about a virus like a throat infection ?

What do you guys think it might be ?
*** Can I still use Revolution on Demon ?

[Tressie]

Hi Annik,

X-rays are mandatory! The two conditions this could be will be identified only with x-rays, one is pneumonia, which is REALLY hard to detect other than with an x-ray. Even listening to the chest won't pick it up. The other is cardiomyopathy. Both of these conditions cause coughing and fatigue.

And then of course there is lymphoma. The other possibility, which is an extremely rare condition is megaesophagus. Both of these conditions are very, very serious, not easy to treat and prognosis is extremely poor. I am only mentioning them because they have to be considered if nothing else is identified and he gets worse.

Of course an obstruction will also cause coughing but his appetite would be off in that case. If he vomits, its highly probable that its an obstruction.

I have never heard of a ferret having a throat infection. Was he runnng a fever?

I would also get a blood glucose (BG) check since early insulinoma can cause extreme weight loss. Dr. Drmac should have glucometer. If his non-fasted BG is 3.3 or under - BINGO he has insulinoma. He will need to be put on prednisolone then.

When you say he had a black stool, do you mean BLACK or dark, dark green or brown, which can look black? The stool associated with an ulcer is shiny black, like a blob of tar. And if he does it on a puppy pad there will be reddish fluid appearing in the paper around it.

If his stool is in fact BLACK, he should not be eating any kibble right now, not even mushed up. Chicken baby food or A/D with warm water is all he should be eating until the ulcer heals.

Dr. Drmac needs to know if he has a black tarry stool because he will need to be put on the Helicobacter protocol (i.e., sulcralfate, Amoxi & Biaxin).

He could have a couple of different things going on at the same time. You want to rule out pneumonia because he can go down hill very quickly with that. Playing one minute, gone the next.

In the interim monitor his food and fluid intake. And if any BLACK stools, only feed Chicken baby food and/or A/D.

Has anyone been around them with the flu? Another, albeit remote possibility.

How long has he been coughing? Do you notice any pattern to his coughing? For example, after playing, only after eating, random, etc. Any hind-end weakness or wobble to his gait? Any zoning out? Teeth grinding?

Keep us posted.

Tressie

[Johnny and Demon]

That's what he means by "throat infection" he was meaning a sort of virus like a flu.

He is not vomiting and his apetite is not totaly off he still wants to eat. Thats why Dr. Drmac said it was probably not an obstruction. He was thinking more about a virus or something so he wants us to get back in his office with news. Demon keeps eating his kibble - I will cut them and give him chicken baby food only until my boyfriend is back so we can see Dr. Drmac. I want to show him his latest poop, in case and we were thinking about xrays - I know most people find tis expensive but when its needed you have no choice - there's no price for a life.
Here's what his poops look like :



(Hopefuly you were not eating lol)
Its kinda confusing I keep read my books and what your saying and I can't tell whats going on. Its really confusing his poop are totaly the opposite.

- No vomit and he is not really lethargic
- Dark Brown Poop & Light Brown Birdseed like poop
- Coughing
- Doesn't drink much water unless we make him try
- He still eats kibbles and chicken baby food
- He seems tired but he still want to play ; however, not as much as he usualy does
- He lost some weight last night and today he seems to gain some - not much but enough to make a difference

Can you give me some ideas of what the symptoms are in each disease ? It will help me find out and its also really important to us to give the more details we can to Dr. Drmac.

Thanks Tressie, we do appreciate your help.
& Demon too !

[Johnny and Demon]

He is coughing randomly, sometimes while playing, sometimes during his nap and when he is eating.

[Johnny and Demon]

My boyfriend's parents were here a week ago (or 2) with their dog and she was sneezing alot and she has a clear discharge the very last day she was here (the dog was here for 2 days). Do you think its possible that Demon got the flu from her ? She was here 2 days only and Demon started to act weird maybe like 3 days ago. Demon was sneezing a bit today. Not clear discharge yet.

[Tressie]

Hi Annik,

Had you meant to post a pic of his stool? Nothing posted

Okay here's clinical symptoms associated with the illnesses I mentioned and links to getting more info:

Upper GI ulcer, generally stress-related and exacerbated by Helicobacter - all of these or only one or two:

• black tarry stool
  
• teeth grinding
  
• vomiting
  

Additional link: miamiferret.org/helicobacter.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------

Insulinoma (all or one/two) or more:

• hind-end weakness
  
• low energy, or diminished energy
  
• vomiting
  
• spacing out
  
• drooling
  
• weight loss
  

miamiferret.org/treatment.htm
miamiferret.org/insulinoma.htm

-------------------------------------------------

Pneumonia/flu:

ferrethealth.org/archive/YG10945

pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/message/7931

Check out the Ferret Health list for tons of information on all kinds of illnesses/diseases etc. You can post and do a search through the archives. People from all over the world post there, including very experienced ferret folk as well as ferret expert veterinarians. pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/

However, from the fact that he has also sneezed, it does sound more likely that its a flu virus. The thing to watch for is secondary infection (i.e., sinusitis, pneumonia, etc.).

Critical question - was the dog vaccinated for Distemper? Have your boys been vaccinated for it within the past 3 years?

Make sure to wash your hands after handling the ferrets and keep Theodore separated from them if at all possible, in case it is the flu.

Keep in mind that he can pass the flu to his human parents as well.

Tressie

[Johnny and Demon]

I sent you pictures of his poop by email. You'll see one is light brown birdseed like and the other is kinda black.

[Johnny and Demon]

The birdseed like poop is his latest one

[Johnny and Demon]

The day went by and there's no more "black" stools - do you think it was the stressed of his vet visit and so ?
His stools are light brown to normal brown but they are really grainy like birdseed. Is it because we changed his diet for chicken baby food ? I was looking up symptoms and it sounds like a flu - hopefuly nothing bad. He seems to get better, he is eating drinking a bit but he is still not as hyper as he is usualy. The good news is : everytime he is out of his cage, he is kinda the same Demon we used to know. The only thing is he is not going on war dances so far - fatigue probably. I will certainly have my 2 eyes on him. & Theodore is staying away ; Johnny and our cat aswell.

[Tressie]

Hi Annik,

Yes I got the pics - thank you and replied to them.

It looks like general GI upset that could be from a change in food, although Chicken baby food is generally well tolerated. It is just chicken and broth right? No veggies or pasta in it?

If it is the flu, could also be that.

I would cut out the Ferretone, and FerretLax for now since it can also cause looser stools. Ferretvite only if you need to stimulate his appetite. Too much of the stuff may exacerbate insulinoma.

If it is a flu bug it will pass anywhere from 5 days to 3 weeks before he's himself again. The average is around 10-14 days. So give the kid a break

Glad to hear he's doing better. Keep in mind he may slide back again so continue keeping an eye on him.

A visit to the vet is generally stressful for most ferrets and other animal companions. However, one visit wouldn't be stressful enough to cause an ulcer unless the vet is a sadist. The move would have been stressful. Any new changes would be stressful. But if you aren't seeing any more black stool, it may have been more a dark green or brown that looked black.

The rule of thumb with stools - wait 72 hours and if not better than you know there's a problem.

Tressie

[airy]

Annik, i am so sorry to hear that your special lil guy is not feeling his best. I promise to send many prayers and good vibes to Demon.

Just to let you know, last year Airy had very similar symptoms, I was worried sick like you are now, I thought the very worst and before we made it to the vet I had myself convinced that she had every terrible ferret illness there was, I was such a nervous wreck, then the vet tells me it was a cold and she didn't even require any medication/treatment. Im sure hoping that with Demon it is nothing serious either and I have a good feeling he will be back to his healthy and happy self in no time at all. Just try not to worry yourself too much until you know for sure, but you do say there is some improvement, that very well sounds like a good sign.

[Tressie]

It is a misconception that ferrets catch colds, in fact, ferrets don't get colds. They can't catch the Rhinovirus that causes colds, however, they certainly can get the flu. Oftentimes people don't know the difference so to be safe, best to keep anyone with a sniffle away from the fuzzkids.

Flu symptoms are more extreme i.e., headache, body aches and pains, extreme fatigue etc.

Tressie

[Johnny and Demon]

Thank you guys ! Its always hard to see one of our babies not feeling its best, even if its nothing to really be worried about, I mean, its always hard because we love them so much ! I think you both know what I am talking about Thanks for everything

[TayLa]

GeT WeLL DeMOn

Wee LUv U __ n We PraYinG fuR U

lv TayLa n' AbbY

Attachments:

[mindy]

Oh my gosh, that picture is so adorably cute!

I hope that Demon is feeling better today